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Co-Parenting With a Narcissist (& the Agony of Defeat)

The only thing harder than breaking up/going No Contact with a narcissist is breaking up/going No Contact with a narc who also happens to be your baby daddy/momma. Based on the countless emails and comments that I receive from victims (both male AND female) who struggle to co-parent with a narcissist ex, it’s clear to me that there are no easy solutions. In fact, up until I began to write this post, I was beginning to fear that perhaps there were no solutions but this answer simply wasn’t acceptable to me. How am I supposed to help if there are no solutions? So, I gave the subject a good deal of thought and decided tom put a slightly different spin on this very unique co-parenting scenario. Ultimately, what I decided was that co-parenting with a narcissistic ex AND having a peaceful life can happen because it must and that the Agony of Defeat was not insurmountable.

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Can a Narcissist love his/her children?

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This is the big question, of course, and I believe that the answer to that is ‘no’ – at least not in the way normal people love their children. In fact, it’s not even close. The truth is that a narcissist can no more love his or her children than he or she can love a partner, friend, family member, or anyone else.  I’ve never seen it happen. I’ve never read about it happening. I’ve never heard about it happening. It’s just not possible.  An N is an N is an N. If history showed that even the slightest possibility existed  that narcissists could, in fact, love their own children, I’d be tempted to think that narcissism perhaps was fixable. But there is no history any where that does this…no history, that is, that is based in fact and not in wishful thinking. No, narcissists do not and can not ‘love’ their children.

Now, having said that, do not be misled into thinking that narcissists do not find their children useful under certain circumstances because…oh yeah…they most certainly do. In fact, the N who is a combination “ex-partner” and “co-parent” has the luxury of circulating, surviving, and thriving at levels of evil far beyond that of the typical narcissistic asshole. The narcissist co-parent is indeed a SuperPower in his own right! Yes, he/she who holds this coveted position is awarded the type of false entitlements that a single non-parent narcissist only dreams about. And for the victim partner who wants to get away, a break-up with this narcissist superpower appears too often to be a hopeless situation…a brand new narcissistic show of chaos that promises to be far more damaging than the first, second, and third. And, this time, it is the children who get bumped to the top of the N’s hit list.

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Is it possible to go No Contact with a narcissist co-parent?

No, not in the way that No Contact was originally intended. Victims who want/need the torture to stop but still have to deal with co-parenting issues are left to their own devices without a single one of the privileges that many other victims may take for granted. As a victim who co-parents, how do you block a phone number, move away, refuse to answer the door, blow off the in-laws, and so forth when children are involved? You can’t. How do you flat out refuse to communicate with a parent that the children (bless their hearts) have been duped into loving? How do you deal with the fact that the narcissist talks shit about you to the kids and you can’t even defend yourself (because you choose to do the right thing and stay quiet)?

narcimpressBecause the N is not a normal human, he/she is going to use the children as a narcissistic tactic and weapon of choice to cut you to the very bone. Since the N has no conscience, dragging the children into the dirt is nothing but a thing and the easiest way to hurt you. The N will use every excuse in the book pertaining to the children to intrude upon your new life. At some point, the narcissist may even threaten you – either with CPS or by saying that he simply won’t be bringing them back. Granted, the latter scenario isn’t likely because a typical N honestly can’t be bothered (but the thought is nonetheless horrifying since you know the boundaries that this person will cross both in court and out).  Sadly, you will now have to watch the torture that was your relationship played out towards the children. Since the narcissist (again, male or female) can no longer Idolize, Devalue, & Discard you, he will turn his pathological relationship agenda upon the children. It’s likely he/she will make plans with the children and then not show up.  The N may promise to call and then conveniently forget – for days, weeks, or longer. He/she may even miss holidays altogether, choosing instead to be with a “new” ‘victim’ family and partner. He will relish the thought that even now, with the relationship being over, he can still continue to torture you by torturing the children. And since the children, at least while they’re young, tend to love a narcissist parent unconditionally no matter how neglectful and indifferent he/she may be, the N ultimately gets nearly a life time to make sure you are never happy again!

So, what is the answer?

The answer, first, is to know that the relationship between you and the N is over. At this point, despite how he appears to others, you already know the type of parent that he really is and must proceed to use this information to (for once) serve your own purpose. How much time did the N really spend with the children anyway? Narcissists are historically not doting fathers and mothers or even participating fathers and mothers. Over and over, I hear stories of narcissists walking out just weeks after a child is born. Silent treatments!! Can you imagine that?? Silent treatments when there’s an infant and new mother at home? I hear about narcissists who walk out just days before Christmas, leaving the children with not the slightest idea where daddy went. This may not be exactly the case with your ex-N but I bet its close. Use this knowledge to your advantage. You are a good person. He is not.

As a co-parent with an N, you, too, must strive to be a SuperPower! You must develop thicker skin than you ever thought possible so that every nasty comment he throws your way rolls off your back. You must be able to take an emotional beating without anyone being the wiser. You have to learn to detach, detach, detach and commit, commit, commit to setting boundaries and making rules of engagement. Communication, if possible, should be limited to text, email, and the sporadic phone call…and it must only concern sensible/reasonable issues about the children (and, really, how many of those can there be that have to involve the N?). Above all else, do your best to react to nothing (the point of the N’s game, after all, is to make YOU the psycho co-parent) unless it’s life threatening to the children and even then pay no attention to him/her specifically.

Do not worry about and/or feed into the enormous amount of trash-talking going on behind your back. In fact, say nothing and simply observe, allowing the N to talk trash about mommy (or daddy) all day long if he/she wants to. Sit quietly on the sidelines while the pathetic narcissist digs his own parental grave – and he will dig it because he just won’t be able to help himself. Take comfort in the fact that children are strong, resilient, and smart. They will grow up one day and see the narcissist parent for what he/she is and you will come out the winner. The mask always slips and that’s a fact.

From co-parenting with a narcissist, nothing good ever comes… this we already know so where else can we really go but up?  You must believe in your heart that no matter how hurtful the narcissist is or how evil his intention, you are still free! The relationship is over. You may now look upon the Narcissist as nothing more than an annoying sperm donor and treat him accordingly. He deserves nothing less, nothing more. For years, the narcissist has been methodically managing down your expectations...preparing for this very day….setting the stage for this break-up because he knew it would come…it had to come. The narcissist co-parent counts on the fact that his passive-aggressive conditioning of your responses to his words and behaviors has stuck and that you still fear what he could do, might do, will do.  He counts on his control in this situation and your emotional fragility. The fact that he gets to use the kids against you is just an added bonus!

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Turn it around by having no more fear. It’s time to up the ante.

First, if the narcissist has a girlfriend, tell him you want to be communicative with her about the children. Now, the N will hate this but that’s too bad. Normal couples in normal break-ups speak to “the others” all the time. In fact, you should simply refuse to send the kids unless you at least get to speak to her on the phone for five detached minutes about Suzie’s sort throat. If you show that you’re willing and actually prefer to communicate with the OW, the N is likely to begin behaving immediately to ensure this never happens – and that’s fine too (it’s what we want). I’d be willing to bet that, within a short amount of time, the narcissist will begin to back out completely since the fun of making you suffer will have been taken out of the equation. Using this particular communication twist clearly sends a message to the N that says: I don’t care about you anymore.

Do not allow fear to keep you from being free. You have to let it all go (narcissist included). Do not let your emotions rule your actions. You can still initiate and implement your own version of No Contact with the narcissist co-parent. You can still move on with your life. Chances are high that if you show indifference, detachment, and a refusal to play the game on his terms in any way, the narcissist will do what he has always done and vanish anyway. The children will still grow up to be wonderful people. In the end, you – as the co-parenting ex victim – will be stronger than any of us who have embarked on this journey.  Your decision to end it with the N despite the fact that you have children together will always be the right decision.

I tip my hat to you, sisters and brothers. It’s going to be a challenge but I know you can do it. Change your perspective and change your life. Do not let the N twist the rules of the game to serve his/her own purpose. Allow no more manipulation because that part of your life is over!! Don’t allow the co-parenting dilemma to become an excuse to stay connected with the N.  Instead, beat the co-parent narcissist at his/her own game by playing by the rules. You can win. I know you can!

 

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169 Comments

  • Stacey

    August 30, 2016 at 6:02 pm Reply

    Wow! I rarely ever comment on articles but this article amazing. I’ve been reading about narcissists for years, searching for answers. You are the first one to actually give advice on how to co-parent with one of these monsters. I only wish I had found this sooner. My husbands ex has literally made our lives a living hell. She could care less how much it hurts the child as long as it hurts my husband. She knows how much he loves his son and has always had that button to push, to set him off.

  • Katy

    August 28, 2016 at 7:11 am Reply

    I’m not sure if I’m coparenting with a narcissist? I read your articles because I just got out of a 3 year relationship with a narcissist (not the father of my children) and am just beginning to learn about it. I am 13 months nc! I stumbled upon this one, curious what my life would have been like if (God forbid) I’d had a child with this a-hole. (You are spot on everytime, by the way. It’s like the same exact narcissist is walking around duping all of us!) I had never thought about my children’s father being a narcissist. I guess mostly because I was the narcissist. (I am a recovering narcissist.) But as I read, I’m sitting here going, he did that! I suppose it’s possible for 2 narcissists to be together. I kept assuming narcissist/victim. I was just the dominant narc. My kids dad left us 5 years ago, almost to the day. During our 10 year marriage he would leave every 3-4 months because he couldn’t deal with me anymore. The length of time would vary from 1 night-3 weeks, depending on how mad or fed up he was. And it was the silent treatment. (I thought he was bipolar, but none of the mania or other behaviors fit the way this does.) I never knew where he was and, to be honest, I was a little afraid to ask. But he always left money in our shared bank account for whatever we needed. I had a 2 year old son when we married. And then we had 4 girls together. On the night that he left, he had been gone all day (who knows where?) because of something I had done. He comes home at 11pm. and our girls are in bed with me watching tv. He storms silently (if that makes sense) into our room, grabs a travel bag and starts shoving his belongings in. Clothes, shoes, toiletries. Our oldest daughter, who was 8 at the time, is watching him and asking, “daddy, where are you going?” No response. “Daddy, are you leaving?” No response. (It makes me cry now thinking about it.) He packs all the things he needs and we don’t hear from him for 5 weeks. It is the end of summer and school is starting so 2 of them will be needing back to school supplies. Something told me he means business this time and to get to the bank asap and pull out as much cash as possible. He got there first and cleaned out the account. The kids and I got on welfare and they immediately filed child support, but it took 9 months to garnish his wages. He owed back pay. So he’s been gone for 5 weeks with no word from him and he shows up at school the morning of their first day. He has a huge smile on his face because he knows they will be excited to see him. It’s time for school to start and they’re crying because they don’t want daddy to leave. I’ve never really seen him need supply. It was more for the appearance of being a good father. His family is notorious about appearances while no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Then we don’t hear from him for another 6 weeks. He is finding someone to sublease our home and he is going to live with his parents (who were no help because they believe his lies), down the street. I had to pack up our whole house with 5 kids, the youngest being 16 mo, and find use somewhere to live. I don’t have family in the area. After he cleaned out a our account I stopped asking him for money. I quit working after our oldest was born to be a stay at home mother. He knows I don’t have any money!!! Where would I get it??? And he was enjoying holding that over me. Plus, I knew child support was working. Our church, school and other organizations were taking care of us. He was just digging his own grave. He used our kids as punishment against me. How are you gonna take care of them? How are you gonna get a job? How are you gonna pay for child care? How are you gonna do this all on your own? It’s why he withheld money and why he wouldn’t see them; I was undeserving of a break. So after 6 weeks of silent treatment, he begins seeing them every other weekend and has consistently done so for the last 5 years. But ONLY every other weekend, mind you. He has no interest in extra time. He stopped seeing my son, whom he helped me raise. My son is 17 and able to process and verbalize it better. He talks now about how much that hurt. He says the guys is a **** (he has many explicits for his x-stepfather. It’s the only time I allow him to curse.) At the age of 12 when he left, my son couldn’t figure out what he had done wrong. My x never said goodbye or anything (not that I would have kept them apart), he just disappeared from my son’s life. And child support is paid, but only because they force him. I’ve asked him for money for some dental bills and the answer is, “I pay you child support, use that.” I’m not sure if he is aware the court requires him to pay half of the medical bills in addition to support? The point is, it’s not about the kids teeth being healthy, it’s about forcing me to “figure it out”. The strange thing is, when the girls are with him, I know they’re in his presence, well fed, appropriately disciplined, safe and the weekend is all about them. He doesn’t have friends around or take them tromping along to do his thing. They come home happy and with fun stories to share. (While I nod, smile and grind my teeth.) Yet, he has no problem using them to punish me. But when the girls come back its outta sight, outta mind and they don’t hear from him until their next visit. I always assumed his silent treatment and fits were in response to MY narcissism. Were they? Did he have to go strait nc with me and that’s why he acted that way? And now he treats me like shit because i used to suck the life out of him and he had to put his foot down? But that still doesn’t account for some of his behaviors concerning the kids. Idk how can he be this cool single guy with no responsibilities and then be, literally, father of the year every 2 weeks? In fact, he had a serious gf 2 months after he left us. She had 2 young kids that he spent more time with than his own. He would be with her and her kids for the 2 weeks and see his kids every other weekend! I’m sure she thought he was amazing because he was such a good dad to her kids, but how can you respect a man that “loves” your kids and neglects his own??? Regardless, my kids and I are safe and happy together. And they feel loved, even if they can’t see the bigger picture. Just some of these stories sounded all too familiar. Narcissism is everywhere and it is very bad.

    • Zari Ballard

      September 23, 2016 at 7:41 pm Reply

      Hi Katy,

      Okay, first of all….there is no such thing as a “recovering” narcissist so you can’t be that. You are either a narcissist or you’re not. I would tend to think that you’re not because you are here writing this (and also because, apparently, you have a happy, loving home) so why would you put such a label on yourself. I looked up your other post and you never say anything like that so what would make you do that. And no, two narcissists will not get together for the simple reason that they won’t be attracted to each other. I’ve never known it to happen. Narcissists never change and they can’t be fixed NOR do they CARE to fix themselves. They like themselves just the way that they are. Again, there is no recovery from BEING a narcissist.

      As for this question, Idk how can he be this cool single guy with no responsibilities and then be, literally, father of the year every 2 weeks? The answer is “quite easily”. There are zillions of single guys who are free of responsibility until the weekend comes. It’s called “being a single dad”. And, technically, he doesn’t have to ever see the kids other than what the court orders so he isn’t doing anything wrong there. Why was he given visitation only every two weeks? As for paying the medical and things like that, you’d have to go back to court to push it but the truth is the only thing they can REALLY enforce is child support. However, if it is on the order as something separate, then that probably needs to be brought to his attention. Seeing his children per the court order and making the most of their time together is not considered neglect and I suppose it could be worse. They could come home sad and filled with stories of abuse. You can only do what you can do and be the best parent YOU can be. You just can’t be worried about what he is doing anymore unless it affecting the kids negatively.

      So, stop labeling yourself. I can’t imagine where you would get that idea that you are a recovering narcissist when it is clear by the information on this website and others that it is not something you can recover from unless, of course, you are the victim and you are recovering from the abuse. I am going to assume that this is the truth. Continue being happy and he’ll just keep doing what he’s doing. It’s probably best that you have the children as much as you do anyway!

      Zari:)

  • Debbie

    August 21, 2016 at 6:04 pm Reply

    Everything I read about narcissism is about a spouse or partner. Well 16 yrs ago I escaped my narcissistic, mentally and verbally abusive marriage of 17 yrs with my 3 kids. They will always be scarred! He destroyed me.my daughter is 33 yrs old. Single mother of a 6 yr old girl. i would like to focus on her right now. Right after highschool she started a gay relationship with her highschool friend. Because of her parents discovering her sexuality, she left home and moved in with us. End of June that yr is almost died, a couple days before leaving the narcissist. Couple weeks out of hospital I left with the kids. Then the friend moves in. She was co dependent. Needed to be needed. After they finished school they both got work at the same place. Shared an apartment. Then bought house together. Looking back I can see that the relationship / friendship was toxic. They fed off of each other. I always thought that her friend was so insecure that she never would leave my daughters side, which she was but my daughter encouraged it. She fed off of it !! After about 5 yrs my daughter met her daughters father. They had a relationship for about 5 yrs. it ended around time my granddaughter was born. All that time her friend still,lived with her. She spent every hour of every day trying to show my daughter that she couldn’t live without her. I swear if my daughter asked her to wipe her but she would have. While my daughter is sleeping with baby daddy, she is still sharing a bed with her friend. To jump ahead, it took her friend 13’yrs to give up and move out . She was a shell. My daughter drained her completely. To shorten this, when I left in 2000, all I wanted was to try to have a normal relationship with my kids. I felt that I owed them so much after the childhood that I had put them through. I do have 2 other kids. My 31 son has intellectual deficiencies and lives with me. My other son is 26. When the time came for my daughter to go back to work after her maternity leave, I had just gone back to school, graduated but due to issues with my son’s physical and mental health I was unemployed. Needless to say I had the joy of becoming full time Gramma. From 11 months to end of kindergarten 6 yrs old. Last yr when my granddaughter started school, I didn’t stay around at the end of the day when my daughter got home from work. I figured that with my granddaughter starting school, my daughter needed her space to get a new routine down. I would still help with suppers, get granddaughters lunch ready for school etc. I had my own issues going on, I suffer from anxiety, depression, ptsd. No support system. Very low income . All in all, I now understand that I had lost value in her eyes with my actions! because I wasn’t there as much, she was working on a replacement. Around October she started talking about this woman at work. “I would like her, she was my age ( then 51), had her own home, single, has $$ ” not that that matters”. I was happy because being a single mom I wanted her to go out, have friends. So They went out to supper and drinking a few times. I was so happy that she had someone to enjoy life with. Xmas 2015, things started to go downhill, no contact during Xmas vacation when in the past we tried to hang out once in a while on days off. We did spend Xmas together. Usually we would text a few times a day, she would phone me at night and chat. Nothing. January and this woman is coming home with my daughter after work and not leaving. She is there all the time!! PTSD !!!! anxiety attacks!!! I couldn’t be around when they got back after work. It was fight or flight. Because of my granddaughter flight was the best answer. All my instincts were screaming at me! Itried to talk to my daughter about what was going on. The usual narcissistic responses! It was all in my head ! There was nothing wrong! I am so concerned for my granddaughter! She has NO one on one time with her mother! She is there but not THERE as a mother! She is so concerned about her new source. The friend isn’t good with kids, you can tell doesn’t really like them. My granddaughter is starting to want her just to go home. I’m all over the place with this story but I never thought that my daughter would grow up to be a true narcissist!! I never would have dreamed that she would turn into the person that destroyed all of us !! She has dumped her mother!! I’m not a friend or boyfriend or girlfriend. I am her mother! She is raising my granddaughter !! She is who I am so worried about! I worked really hard to protect my kids the best I could from their father!! I know because of my neglect I am also guilty of abuse, but I did try. If my daughter’s new friend of 8 months now, that has a home but never goes home, thinks that this is NORMAL?? New friend that can’t be alone ever ?!?! Life that really revolves around her and what she can suck out of her friend?!? Not only am I worried about my daughter’s mental state but what about the friend’s. She there 24/7!! What about my granddaughter???? NO way is she going to be raised by a narcissist!!!!!! And her co dependent friend who has no idea, motherly instinct, any knowledge on how to raise a kid. I screwed up big time, but I’m the one that raised those children and I am proud of how they grew up!! I did do some things right! Nobody walks away from that much abuse unscathed! Doesn’t change the fact that is feels more like my daughter and the relationship I thought we were working on is DEAD!!

    • Zari Ballard

      September 5, 2016 at 6:23 pm Reply

      Hi Debbie,

      I’m sorry that it took me so long to respond to this. You certainly have a lot on your plate, sister, and I can’t imagine how you are handling it all. You are so much stronger than you think!!! Your daughter indeed sounds like she is a female narc and, indeed, female narcs are the worst. They are, typically, horrible parents for the simple reason that they are too wrapped up in themselves and what they are doing and who they are sleeping with and so on. You know this. They can swing both ways sexually and drag everyone down with them, guys and gals. It’s a little hard to tell, but I take she is living somewhere else with the old girlfriend and now the new girlfriend has joined them? It sounds awful. How do you get your information as to what is happening over there if you don’t see them? Do you still see the granddaughter? Please send me an update and I will look for it. My suggestion is to focus on only those things that you can control and that would be the care of your granddaughter. I agree that she is the important element here in all of this. You can’t control the behaviors of narcissists, you can only control your reactions to it.

      You are a very strong woman, my friend. Please let me know how you are doing……

      Zari xo

  • MSLM

    August 16, 2016 at 4:37 pm Reply

    IMPORTANT POST!! THIS AWESOME SISTER HAS PROVEN MY POINTS ABOUT CO-PARENTING. FOLLOW HER LEAD IF YOU CO-PARENT WITH A NARC:)

    I feel so empowered by this post. I was one of the “ex-victims” left with a newborn. Actually a 10 day old and a 15month old to be exact. The best thing that ever happened to me. I could write a long novel but long story short all of this is true. I have been dragged to court more than 15 times, cursed out, sent huge text messages, bombarded with phone calls, verbally attacked in person and the worst…comments made to our baby daughter. I never reacted to him however I did hire an attorney, provide all the proof to the Court, purchase a cell phone for the kids calls, separate email for kid communication only and do not acknowledge him at exchanges unless I have to. Setting these boundaries will make him up the ante i.e. bringing a new “live in” girlfriend to the exchanges, have her carrying our son, even then I didn’t react I just acted like it was all normal, actually started a conversation with her (even though I was boiling) and NOW….its lost its fun to him so he would rather her wait in the car or send her off as to not interact with me yay! It works turn the tables, make her your chat friend just once and it will be too much for him to handle. Now I don’t have to interact with either I just don’t acknowledge her either and leave with a smile telling the kids “say bye to daddy” like la la la N’s hate to see you happy. But BE HAPPY you are FREE!!!! No matter what kids will grow and see how mommy behaved versus daddy and trust me they will know 🙂

    • Zari Ballard

      September 5, 2016 at 6:06 pm Reply

      MSLM wrote…No matter what kids will grow and see how mommy behaved versus daddy and trust me they will know ???? I’ve been saying this for years…yes, they will know!!!!

      Hi MSLM,

      You rock, girl! I love that you turned the tables with a smile and a shrug of your shoulders. You are too cool. I’ve been trying to tell people it works and people resist it. I marked your post “important” because it truly is. Thank you for sharing…you are officially deemed an INSPIRATION:)

      Zari xo

  • coach

    August 1, 2016 at 9:10 pm Reply

    I have tried to communicate with the current girlfriend but she isn’t interested. She thinks it is best that her and I only communicate through the N. I feel sure those are really his words and not hers but do you have anything helpful? Poor thing will barely look my way when she is around, no telling the things he has lied about…..and another question, he constantly breaks court orders so should I hold him responsible/in contempt or ignore it because he is ultimately looking for a reaction?

  • Yolanda

    June 11, 2016 at 10:10 am Reply

    Wow! After reading this article I felt like a camera has been following me around. I knew my ex had a mental disorder, which at first I thought was bipolar but after researching I realized he is a narcissist. We were together for about 8 years and I was physically, emotionally, and mentally abused by this man. After we broke up it became worst with threats and treating our son as his own personal tool. I honestly try hard not to argue with him but the situation is getting worst. Now he is married and his wife has been manipulated by him as well. Fortunately for the past year he has been in jail but now he really wants a pity party. Making everyone feel sorry for him and our son is now taking the brunt of his abuse. Our son hasn’t been to see his dad due to the fact I don’t talk with his wife and I told my ex I would need to speak with her about our son “possibly” visiting him. Of course he didn’t want that, so I didn’t let our son go see him. His wife and mom constantly calls our son asking if he can come over instead of speaking with me…the bitter ex. But now our son is a pre-teen and his dad has started verbally abusing him. He has called him shady, hung the phone up on him, told our son he doesn’t get any clothes on his behalf because he doesn’t call his wife or go see his baby brother. I’m so over this situation! And now I see my son is also frustrated with his dad. His wife recently gave her daughter a graduation party but she never called and invited our son. My son said, “but I get in trouble for not calling.” So of course his dad sent a message reaming him out for not going and that he should be keeping in contact with his wife. But mind you our son sent a Happy Mother’s Day text to his wife the week before the party so if she really wanted him to come then she could’ve told him about it then. My ex will be out of jail next year and I so dread it because I know he is going to take me back to court and possibly demand custody or more visitation with our son, which he has already made a comment that, “I hope our son knows things will be different when I come home because he hasn’t been in contact with anyone.” So I assume they are all going to act indifferently towards our son because he didn’t call them back when they wanted him to. I’m tried to be cordial with my ex and his wife but only get sent ugly text message from her. I have documented everything in case he does take me back to court because I have seen this man disappoint our son so many time. But I want to know what rights does our son have? He seems sad and tired of his dad always getting on him about everything instead of giving him motivation he trying to suck the life out of him like he did to me. My dream would be to keep my ex in prison for another 5 years, by then our son will be 18 years old and it would be his decision to deal with him. I know that sounds bad but I get anxiety thinking of having to deal with him when he is released from prison and the rollercoaster ride he will take our son on.

    • Zari Ballard

      June 12, 2016 at 4:46 pm Reply

      Hi Yolanda,

      I sympathize with you, sister, but only because I don’t think you “get it”. So, I’m here to set it straight: This isn’t about you. This is about your son. That being said, I don’t understand how this can be happening. If I were you, I would cease all contact with ANYONE who has ANYTHING to do with this asshole and also cease all contact with the ASSHOLE himself. Why in God’s name are you even putting yourself or your son through any of this? Stop it NOW. GO TO COURT WHILE THIS JERK IS STILL IN JAIL AND GET SOLE CUSTODY!!! There isn’t a court ON THIS PLANET that won’t grant it to you. What RIGHT does this degenerate have to call his son SHADY as he sits in a fucking jail cell? None! Who the fuck does he think he is? Excuse my over use of the ‘f’ word but this is ridiculous. Your son will be far better off not having a dad at all than having this lowlife for a father and all the flying monkeys (the wife, the mother) that go with it.

      Although I don’t think he should visit these people at all, I would agree with you about wanting to speak with (I WOULD ALSO SAY “MEET”, if you haven’t) the wife before allowing it to even happen. That being said, what I don’t understand is why you would even ASK the father’s permission to speak with her anyway? Who cares if he doesn’t want you to talk to the wife? Who cares!!! Why is this scumbag controlling this entire situation from a jail cell and why are you allowing it? To distract you, that’s why, until he gets out. Cut these losers off and save your son his pre-teen years. As his mother and the only parent in his life, YOU HAVE TO BE YOUR SON’S ADVOCATE. And being an advocate takes a lot more than love. It takes ACTION. You shouldn’t have to ask what your son’s rights are – YOU CAN MAKE ANY RIGHT FOR HIM THAT YOU WANT RIGHT NOW. His father is in jail and therefore has no rights as a father at all – not a single one – so stop catering to him. He doesn’t have a RIGHT to say “hi” to his son let alone demean and criticize him.

      As for the wife and the mother, why haven’t you blocked these people from calling your son…whereby FORCING them to call you if that’s what you want?? Why try to be cordial? If you’re going to stick to your decision in not allowing your son to visit his STEP mother (who thankfully has no rights here) and grandmother (who thankfully has no rights here either) unless you speak to them first, then why are these people allowed to call and harass your son about a decision that YOU made? You say they bypass you…well, they can’t bypass you if you block then from your son’s cell phone. My guess is that if they know they have to talk to you, they’ll stop calling anyway – GOOD. And stop accepting calls from the jail. Explain to your son that he no longer has to even speak to his dad if he doesn’t feel like it. Right now, THIS IS HIS RIGHT. You’re not getting a dime of support now, I bet, and probably won’t be getting any for a very long time after he gets out. THIS IS WHY IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT YOU GO TO COURT TODAY AND GET SOLE CUSTODY Then, let him take you to court all he wants with his felony and prison records and make all kinds of demands…let’s see how that works for him. If he wants to go that route, they’ll be sure to tell him what he owes in back child support too.

      You have to understand that this guy has no rights at all right now – none! When he gets out and pursues it, though, anything can happen. HE AND HIS FLYING MONKEYS ARE TRYING TO DISTRACT YOU FROM DOING WHAT THEY KNOW THAT YOU COULD DO BEFORE HE GETS OUT AND THAT’S GET SOLE CUSTODY! Snap out of this fog you’re in. While he’s in jail…get yourself to a court house pronto!! You are allowing him to intimidate you and hurt your son’s feelings from a jail cell and I don’t understand it. No where in your post does it say that you fear for your life when he gets out…all you talk about is a roller coaster ride. So what? All of us have been on roller coaster rides with narcissists. You’re catering to this jerk to hopefully lesson a menial roller coaster ride while your son is paying the emotional price AND while you could be going to court and pretty much putting a stop to any legal roller coaster ride he could put you on anyway!

      Okay…enough of a lecture. I really do care even if I don’t understand your thinking here. I’d love to get an update saying that you have sole custody papers in your hand, you no longer accept calls from jail, the numbers of all flying monkeys are blocked, and your son AND you are finally sleeping peacefully. We can only do what we can do when dealing with these creatures but the point is that we have to do it.

      Zari:)

  • Vee

    April 14, 2016 at 9:58 pm Reply

    So happy I found this post! I just wanted to comment and say that I finally found my voice and I am done with co parenting with the Narc and communicating with his family of enablers. I didn’t realize that I have been a victim for all these years until now! I am mad because of all the lies and dillusional world that this man lives in! He lives in the past and always reminisces on the glory years of highschool and college before life became real. He expects others to live in those memories but memories does not help to feed or clothe his children! I made the god awful mistake of getting pregnant by a narcisstic deadbeat and I didnt begin to see who he truly was until after I told him I was pregnant. He asked for an abortion…I told him no and he stated “well this will be your project”. Oh and boy has it been a project. I received no assistance from him for the first 9 months of our childs life. Not a diaper or a teddy bear. But I looked past that and still flew back to his home state with our child so that he and his family could meet the baby—no assistance in travel from him or his family. But I didnt mention anything about that. I just kept doing what God would want me to do. Finally I told God, the Narc, and his family that I have had enough. I dont need anymore life lessons to know to stay away from this man and his family. He does not care for our child. Has never been to a birthday party in 0-5 years…yes he also wasnt there for the birth of his son (he was at a sporting event celebrating his own birthday. Never even sent him a birthday card. When I realized that after moving clear across country back to his state twice (with my own finances, only to keep having the same inconsistency happen I stopped in my tracks and said wait…this needs to stop. I can’t trust the Narc to take him to school or camp because the Narc believes that because he is the father he can decide if and when he takes his son to camps and school that I have already paid for. I call the camp or the school to check on my child and they tell me he didnt show up for the day. As a mother do you know how it feels to not know where your child is? And then the Narc who had no part in calling camps or schools to find vacancies just acts like its no big deal. Or the constant fear of making my own personal plans for fear that he will cancel on our agreed upon arrangement. He would cancel because he did not want me to live my life and when he would cancel I could either cancel my plans, find a babysitter at the last minute or bring my child with me. Living in the same state as a Narc is pure torture- especially if you dont have any family in that state. After he withheld child support for months and I lost my job I knew that this was my out! Now if he wants to see our son he can fly clear accross country to develop that bond because he sure didnt value the close proximity that I provided nor did he want to respect boundaries of a mom who is tired of the manipulation. Narcs need to learn how to play a boardgame instead of playing manipulative head games with kids and coparents.

    • Zari Ballard

      April 18, 2016 at 7:02 pm Reply

      Vee wrote….I made the god awful mistake of getting pregnant by a narcisstic deadbeat and I didnt begin to see who he truly was until after I told him I was pregnant. He asked for an abortion…I told him no and he stated “well this will be your project”. Oh and boy has it been a project. Wow….only a narc would describe a baby as a PROJECT!!!! I never cease to be amazed!!!

      Hi Vee,

      OMG…could we share some stories, girl!! Your post is a loooooong chapter out of my life relative to my son’s dad (not the narcissist of my books and, in so many was worse!). I could go on and on how similar our lives have been…from the horror not knowing where my son was when his dad had him on the weekends that he DID show up, from never being able to make my owns plans because he’d cancel at the last minute, to the years of missed child support payments (even though he was in the military!), to the missed birthdays, to me flying myself and my son to my ex (after he moved) on my own dime year after year to keep the father-son dynamic alive for my son’s sake, to the head games and worry that he’d take my son forever to punish ME, to the fight with child support that just ended four years ago (when my son was 24) when I finally got the last check. To make matters worse, at the age of ten my son was diagnosed with a mental illness and his father would have none of it! He told the family that I put that thought in my son’s head to punish HIM even though my poor son was in and out of hospitals for years. It was a nightmare!

      And when you say that living in the same state with the co-parenting ex is hell, you got it! When my son was 5, one day my ex called and said he had gotten a job back east (Air National Guard) and he was leaving in a week. I was so sad for my son (who loved his mean daddy so much, bless his heart) that I wasn’t even thinking of the benefit to me at the time. THEN, and on the night he came to say good-by to his son, we had just pulled into the parking lot of my apartment complex and he was waiting for us. He came to my son’s side and it was this big dramatic good-by to which I had no reaction at all, just wanting him to go. So he drives off and I get out of the car AND I LITERALLY HAD TO HANG ON TO THE CAR TO KEEP MYSELF FROM FLYING OFF INTO OUTER SPACE!!! LOLOL I FELT LIGHT AS A FEATHER AS IF A 1000 POUND WEIGHT HAD JUST BEEN PLUCKED OFF MY SHOULDERS. I will never forget that!! Up until that point, all I had been thinking about was how my son would miss him…I had no idea the physical toll it had really took on me until I realized in that split second that he was really leaving the state. I could barely keep my feet on ground. Of course, then the years of flying around so my son could visit him followed after but it was NOTHING compared to having him within the same fucking town. I so “get” that.

      Today, my son is 26. Seven years ago, my ex (who had done two tours in Iraq) invited my son to come visit him for a weekend at the air base in San Diego. He even paid for it which I thought was strange. It turns out that there was a a very sinister purpose to this trip. My son was there 24 hours and his dad gave him an ultimatum…it was him or his mom. He could either live with me and continue to suffer with his illness or he could stay with his dad and “be a man”. How sad is that? My son chose me and his father promptly put him on a plane home. Six months later he changed his phone number and we haven’t heard from him since. He’s such an awful person. It has hurt my son horribly and I have reached out several times to him and even to his new wife but no response. My son is such a good person and truthfully, he is the most awesome human being I know. His goal is to help children who have the same illness…he is a son any NORMAL father would be so proud of. The GOOD NEWS, though, is that – despite growing up without a dad or, even when he was around, a DECENT dad – my son is HAPPY AND FINE. You are doing the right thing, mama! You’re child will be just fine with his loving mom…it’s hard, to be sure, but goddammit it’s not impossible.

      You rock, girl, and thank you so much for your story! Please write often and keep me posted!!!

      Zari xo

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