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How Narcissist’s Triangulate: Death Of a Heart By a 1000 Cuts

narcissists-and-triangulationTriangulation is a passive-aggressive manipulation tactic used by narcissists and sociopaths to instill feelings of jealousy and insecurity in their partners. It’s a tactic by which narcissists can create thrilling illusions of popularity, making themselves out to be far busier and more socially-in-demand outside of the relationship than they really are. This narcissistic strategy, like all the others, slips quietly into the relationship over time so that you – the loving partner – barely know it’s happening until you start to get “that feeling”.

When the narcissist triangulates, victims find themselves feeling jealous of people, places, and things that, under normal circumstances, wouldn’t warrant a second glance. If you’ve always known the narcissist to be a loner, triangulation makes it appear that you’ve been wrong all along. If the narcissist has always had “friends”, triangulation is used to milk his popularity for all it’s worth. Either way, the desired result is that you feel anxious, suspicious, and insecure about every little thing.

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You may even begin to feel guilty about your jealous thoughts and doubtful of your ability to act “normal”. When and if you do confront the N about your suspicions, he’ll call you delusional or needy or bi-polar and he will never admit to anything at all. He’ll look at you with a blank stare and claim he doesn’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about… “Fine,” he’ll say, “I guess I can’t tell you anything about anyone. All I’m trying to do is make conversation with you. You’re so insecure.” And the triangulation will continue.

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Narcissist always triangulate – even if you don’t know they’re doing it. Patient as always, the N will simply do it and do it and do it until you fucking get it…until he breaks you of all that confidence and security that made you attractive to him to you in the first place.

The thing that makes triangulation so amazing is that it’s extremely flexible and can actually involve absolutely anything – even inanimate objects. My ex spent most our years together triangulating me with his cell phone…his cell phone! At any given time, his phone was either glued to his hand, hunkered down in the pocket of his jeans, locked inside his car attached to the charger, mysteriously lost (when he was with me) and then mysteriously found (after he got home), conveniently “out of the area” and unable to get a signal, turned off, out of minutes, not working properly (until a call came in), on vibrate (so that I wouldn’t hear it ring), suddenly unable to receive texts, or suddenly able to receive only texts. He always had a myriad of crazy-making excuses as to why I couldn’t see it, hear it, know about it, or get within five feet of it. In my mind, that cell phone had long legs, cute hair, and a great ass. As a bonus gesture, my ex would, during a silent treatment, even change his number, making me insane. Whether or not his phone, at any given time, really did contain the numbers of random girlfriends, I never really knew…but he sure jumped through hoops to make me feel that it did. Sound familiar? Believe me,  The Cell Phone Game is all about triangulation.

A narcissist will triangulate whenever he senses that you feel a little too comfortable in your own skin or (God forbid!) a little to relaxed within the relationship. For example, if he starts a new job, he’ll triangulate by casually mentioning – just one too many times – the bubbly receptionist and how much she reminds him of his ex or his sister or even you. He may let it slip oh-so-casually that he shared a secret with her in confidence that only you had known about or worse, in the middle of a fight he might say something like,

NARC: “See? I knew you’d act this way. Even Jessica knew it. She told me you’d do that and she was right. She doesn’t even know you and she knows you!”.

PARTNER: Really? So, you talk to her about me? You complain to her about your girlfriend and she comments? What kind of girl does that? What the fuck?

NARC: Oh, here we go. (snickers) See what I mean? I gotta learn to keep my mouth shut. Doesn’t matter who I’m talking to, you’d have a fit. We were just talking that’s all. We talk about a lot of things.

PARTNER: Really? That’s nice. Why are you talking shit about me to anyone – let alone the girls at work? Do you have any clue how that makes me feel?

NARC: Stop starting shit and I won’t have anything to talk about. I gotta get back to the office.

I had the above conversation countless times with every new job he would start. Some narcissists, like my ex, will even set the stage before triangulation so that the inevitable betrayal will have the most impact. To do this, they may claim, at first, to actually hate the very female that later will quietly become the “confidante” OR they’ll go for long periods not mentioning anyone at all and then – BANG – suddenly some person you never even heard about appears to be his best friend. Yes, the narcissist will intentionally allow us to develop a false sense of confidence and security before he smacks us back to reality.

Now, to be clear, it’s completely normal for a couple to expect to share stories and have conversations about co-workers and friends…but nothing about these conversations are normal. Everything involving a narcissist has a slightly sinister edge to it. He can take a perfectly normal behavior – such as chatting amicably with his partner about casual events – and turn it upside down. It’ll be the passive-aggressive way he slips his clues into conversations or it’ll be the inflection in his voice or the attitude with which he says it. Above all else, it’ll be the strange way that whatever he is saying is making you feel. Triangulation is intended to make you doubt not only your importance in the narcissist’s life but your importance in the world in general. It’s a master tactic in the narcissist’s pathological relationship agenda and it is intended to wreck you.

A narcissist will triangulate you with a girl, a guy, his mother or some other relative, a co-worker, a newly acquired acquaintance (that you will never meet), the landlord, a neighbor, the bartender, his boss…it goes on and on. The possibilities are endless. The sky’s the limit! And this person he speaks of may not even be his next target…or maybe she is…you’ll never know for sure. As a distraction to the whole thing, he may even triangulate you with one person while he cheats on you with another. More often than not, this other person will have no idea they’re even being used to triangulate. It’s all a glorious mystery! The intention, as always, is to ultimately trauma bond you to the madness. The narcissist will never let you relax. Ever.

Triangulation may manage down your expectations of the relationship to the point that you become quietly complacent. I became very quiet in the last few years, tangled up in cognitive dissonance and confusion. After all, the last thing I wanted to do was make a big deal about nothing. His words, however, intentional or not, were my biggest clues as to what he was up to. By listening carefully instead of letting it all get to me, I slowly turned his ploy to my advantage. I learned how to read my narcissist like a book. Good or bad, I simply listened, storing information in my organized brain like I would in a file cabinet. Then, later, when I was alone, I’d pull out the files one by one and obsess about the phantom competition. It was a vicious cycle.

For those who’ve never been involved in this type of relationship, it’s hard to understand the dynamics of the triangulation strategy. Since there’s rarely proof to support our case, we often sound like jealous whiners with nothing to whine about. The sad fact is that triangulation becomes just another part of the nonsense that victims become addicted to. When, in fact, it should compel us to leave, it does the exact opposite. We instead become obsessed with holding on to our “position”. We completely forget what is and isn’t a “normal” part of romantic human interaction. Being subjected to this weirdness day after day changes who we are as a person – inside and out. It’s the death of a heart by a thousand cuts and yet another inexplicable reason why the aftermath – the emotional collateral damage – of narcissist abuse is so traumatic. Think about it and think about your life.

No one forces us to ride emotional roller coasters. In true love, there is no competition, real OR implied. Get a new attitude and take your power back. Life is so short and you deserve to be happy!

Have you been triangulated by a narc? Let me know in the comment section!

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85 Comments

  • Pinoncashew

    October 19, 2015 at 4:57 am Reply

    Thanks for this article. I just got out of a very intense almost 1 year relationship. I can’t explain enough how it has almost taken everything from me. It has left me depleted, doubting, self conscious, unhappy. I’m having to tie up so many loose ends of my life because I became so wrapped in the insanity of this man. It has only been a month and a half since we split and things are finally revealing itself now that I’ve been away from him. I can only say that he went through each phase perfectly, from the honeymoon phase, the devaluation phase and the final discard phase. And I only now have learned about triangulation and realized it was his favorite tool in his narcissistic arsenal. He constantly used his ex girlfriends as the third piece of the triangle. They were not there physically and he rarely still talked with them. But he brought them up all the time. I’m usually not jealous or insecure. I understand some people are friendly with their exes but this just didn’t feel normal from the start. It’s hard to explain but it was the way he talked about them it had a reminiscing tone and it took him out of the present relationship with me. It was like he admired then so much and shared this admiration to me. He adored her family and would share memories with me over and over. Then when I would ask him to not do this as much he would tell me I was insecure and immature. It was as though he could not help himself. And he would also triangulate by bringing up somo fictitious future woman he might meet. This was towards the end of the relationship and I had already had it. But it was all very bizarre. I wish I had trusted my instinct and instead it all led to constant panic attacks and feeling like I was in some really screwed up dream. It was so incredibly confusing and sad to love a person who was treating you like the love of his life and then suddenly you are feeling like you’re being compared even if he was not blatantly comparing. This has been my worst love experience yet. I feel stripped away and am having a hard time putting the pieces back. I am angry at myself for putting up with this behavior and for allowing someone to strip down my self worth. I’m also disappointed in how I handled the breakup and felt I threw any last pieces of dignity away. Lessons learned I know. I am taking each day as it comes and am trying not to be too hard on myself. Self care is my top priority moving forward.

    • Zari Ballard

      November 22, 2015 at 3:11 am Reply

      Hi Pinoncashew,

      I’m so, so sorry it has taken me so long to moderate and respond to your post…I hope you are doing okay. I’m sure that much has happened in the last month so please, if you can, send me an update. Triangulation is so hurtful because they can make it about anything. Like you said, we can even find ourselves being triangulated by fictitious people, place, & things. Ridiculous that they can get away with it. But they’re good at what they do or they wouldn’t be what they are!

      Don’t be disappointed in yourself. You can have handled the break-up a million different ways but to him, it’s all the same. You would have never got the last word because he owns the last word. You can have ended it strong and proud or whimpering and it would have been all the same. The way it ended is the way that he intended it to end and, based on what you went through throughout the relationship, you reacted accordingly. WE’RE not the machines – they are. Don’t worry about that part. Cut yourself some slack.

      Hope you’re okay and remember that it’s all baby steps. Don’t think too far ahead or it gets overwhelming. One day at a time is all we can do. You’ll get there, I guarantee it.

      Zari xo

    • sara

      November 23, 2015 at 1:10 pm Reply

      I could have posted on any one of the articles. I am posting on this triangulation thread because it has been the most damaging aspect of my relationship with my MN. I have been married, hopefully soon to be divorced, from this vermin for 15 years. In the beginning when he used this technique it involved a girl from work. I remember him telling me a story, as they were both in medical profession, that she saved the day by offering one of her tampons to a patient as “there were no tampons to be found in the OR that day”. I remember he telling me how “demur and shy” this female coworker was when she made the offer. I put it out of my mind as I was in my own doctoral program, recently had a baby… Boy do I long for the days when he would desire to try and make my crazy with another women. No my narc found the perfect flying monkeys, my own children and his family. My children are the hardest to pill to swallow. He positioned our eldest daughter in a place of superiority. It was sick sick to watch. When I would tell my daughter no to something he would tell her yes. When she spoke he was all ears and very understanding. I on the other hand had no name and he didn’t so much as look at me much less address me-he hasn’t said my name for over 10 years and no I do not have nickname, pet name with him. Over time she became resentful of me and blames me when he has a rage. She and he blame me when my MN has a bad day, when he is distressed about our divorce, when he has a broken toe nail he blames me. It has turned so awful that three of my children now live with him because they were so horrible with me. This triangulation game has cost me and my children everything. He wins. But what did he win? I am still divorcing him, I plan to move on with my life with the children who want to be with me, he now has to control the children he poisoned with his lies and manipulation, he has less energy devoted to getting me. The judge in our case is so on to him and has found him in contempt twice. My brother can hardly believe the destruction this mn has caused.

  • Shoshannah

    October 13, 2015 at 5:04 pm Reply

    Triangulation was my worst nightmare… the worst thing is, it has worked on me, even though I saw through it. I knew immediately that he was trying to make me jelaous, and yet somehow he succeded in making me going crazy. A ‘funny’ (not really funny, of course) fact – I believe I have been betrayed in the past. I suspect that my first boyfriend cheated on my with my best girlfriend! And can you imagine – I forgave him immediately. I understood immediately that it came from the issues we’d had in our relationship, I also thought it was all about me… so I wasn’t really worried about that betrayal. I didn’t cost me much pain.

    Whereas with the ex-narc… we weren’t even exclusive (it was only a dating stage), and yet he managed to make this as painful for me as it can be. He was waiting as long as possible (for a few months) to tellme about his super-romantic new story, all the time leading me to believe that he wants to marry me, when I was ENGAGED to a different man. He was happy destroying my relationship, bagging me to be with him, while having the most romantic time of his life at the same time. And guess what, the other girl was engaged to a different man too. How f*cked you have to be to di such a thing, especially to a… friend? I’ve known my narc for 10 years prior the affair.

    Anyway, thanky you for a great post, Zari! I’ve read your books, they saved my life! Best, Sho.

    • Shoshannah

      October 13, 2015 at 5:12 pm Reply

      The crucial thing that I forgot to mention – how painful it is. With my first boyfriend it didn’t cost me too much pain, whereas with the ex-Narc… It’s even hard to describe. Almost 5 months of NC and I still have flashbacks. Flashbacks that make me crawling and unable to breath. I’m not even mentionning the obsession and its horrible impact of my professional and personal life (the trauma bond makes you obsess like that, I guess), but the inability to breath… NO ‘normal’ betrayal would make you feel like that… not after so much time after a non-exlusive relationship. It’s clear to me now that it was all of his manipulations (triangulation, comparisons eyc.) added to the betrayal that makes you feel like that, Especially if you are not at all a jealous type (like me).

      • Shoshannah

        November 5, 2015 at 8:01 pm Reply

        hi Zari! Thank you for publishing my posts. I was drunk while writing them (ashamed, but sometimes I still find myself at that horrible stage – drinking alone and searching internet for articles about narcissists). So the next morning, when I was sober, I was really ashamed that I even submitted them. I wouldn’t expect them to be published. Glad to see that my comments don’t look as bad as I thought they would. Sorry, but see… almost 6 months out and I am still a mess on worse days.

        A constructive advice that I can add anyway – NC really helps. I made October my month of ‘no peeking’. As soon as November arrived, I peeked, obviously. And I feel like I am in the same stage that I was 5 months ago. Obsessing, comparing myself to all of the OWs, having nightmares etc. It was a drastic change with one single ‘peeking’ – even though I didn’t find nothing really disturbing. (no pictures of his new relationship, no OWs. just some pictures of himself alone, his voice, his words – and I am a few months backwards.

        Stick to NC! – it really helps much more than you’d ever imagine.

        • Zari Ballard

          November 7, 2015 at 4:47 pm Reply

          Oh I’m watching out for everyone….if a post is too drunken, crazy, and out-there, I keep it to the side! LOL But, as you say, they’re never as bad as we think they are when we see them the next day. And, above all else, they come directly from the heart:)

          Zari xo

  • Chantelle

    September 15, 2015 at 1:01 pm Reply

    This part is the hardest for me to understand. I was in the 3rd year of things and from the start I was not liked by his family. What he lied to me about included having vinarial warts and being a drug addict. I held out for months sexuaklly and built trust. His allergys turned out to be a coocain addiction but I found out after I was ” in love”. I have helped him through 8 detoxes and ironically I was discarded at the end of each and not contacted till his next relaps. This was his roblem with his first marrage and his family hated me. I assumed they saw me as white trash as I have kids never married and grew up in government care. But I once emailed his mother after he beat me up badly to the point I require spine surgery he and continued to mess with me. She responded ” If you dont like him so much just leave him alone, stop emailing and texting”. My feelings were beyond crushed. She put the responsability 100% on me and it messed with me. His daughter whome I loved to bits and she loved me was not allowed to see me as his ex believed I was unfit. She let me see the daughter again but it became a sick tool to con trol me, if I argued or questioned anything he would say ” you know my ex will not let you see my daughter if you act like this”. So I played the game stupidly. And when I established boundarys with my finances he discarded me and called the ex to forever establish I was fucked up and she had been right. I never got to say good bye or defend myself. It was all stuff he said to them about me and I hated them for believing it. The worst part is I did everything and more to prove I was good and worthy. Obviosly Im hurt and should be happy its done but Im in pain and so consumed with anger. I feel worse because part of me knows I am better then him but to be devalued and discarcded by someone so evil is messing with me. Logically I know Im better but a big part of me feels like a bad person. Because he was violent and seriously abusive I did keep a log of the violence and pictures of the bruises etc. I want to send it them but I know its not for the right reasons and just to get revenge on him. He called Child protection on me but they new it was malicious and never investigated and its taking everything for me not to fight back. HELP and I have read your 3 books, started over a years ago! All 3 books of which are amazing. I am doing my best top follow your steps. What more will it take for me to go no contact? Its almost like I feel so stupid worthless on one hand and I just want to prove Im not to everyone who unfairly determind I was because of his triangulation. Feeling so weak! Advice welcome and appreciated.

  • Melissa

    September 14, 2015 at 4:55 am Reply

    Is there a reason my first comment didn’t go through?

    • Zari Ballard

      September 14, 2015 at 8:29 pm Reply

      Hi Melissa,

      It takes a couple of days for me to put it through. All first posts are moderated and then, after that, as long as you log in using the same email, it should show right away.

      Zari:)

  • Melissa

    September 14, 2015 at 4:00 am Reply

    I know too well about triangulation. That is what ended my relationship with an abusive N last week.

    Long story (and aren’t they always long?) short I was involved with an older, single man in his 50’s who seemed to be crazy about me at first. Before I became deeply attached I was very confident and bubbly (I’m getting back to my old self by the way). I could do no wrong in his eyes. There were red flags: talking about the ex from 20 years ago (who was a bitch and then a good woman and then a bitch and then…) spilling his own beans about his mistreatment of a FWB and a subtle attempt to make me jealous even at the beginning (claiming a woman was checking him out in a store, “but don’t worry, I only want you”).

    I should’ve ran like the wind.

    During our months (yes only months) together he would disappear. It boggled my mind because he claimed to love me (the first week: HUGE RED FLAG) and respect me and the actions weren’t matching the words. I would pathetically chase him and convince him I was the right woman for him and this relationship could work.

    I worked so hard on being with this man and I have no idea why. While he had moments of attractiveness I will be honest and say sometimes when we kissed or had sex (I’m not even going to fool myself into believing it was lovemaking) I would pretend he was the younger version of himself. He also smoked like a chimney and was a self-proclaimed drunk (6-12 beers daily). But he was also funny and treated me well (i.e, he paid for things). Ugh I sound like an N, huh?

    Anyway, I noticed that every time he came back from a hiatus he was more verbally abusive. I cannot tell you how many times he called me fat (and I’m not fat), stupid (I’m not stupid of course) and said I had nothing to offer him monetarily (he makes more than I do). This, on top of making comments about my son’s disability, my parenting, my clothes, my makeup, my everything. None of it was good enough. I would go to his place, cook and clean, and that also wasn’t good enough.

    I tried so hard and I was exhausted. And during all of this he was still bringing up his ex and “friends” who all happened to be, you guessed it, women. Much older women, 60+ (including the ex). I have never in my life felt like I needed to compete with women old enough to be my mother and possibly grandmother (no offense to the older women here). But this was how crazy Ns can make you.

    So, getting back to the most recent discard/dumping: in a jealous panic (manufactured by the N who triangulated me with a 62 year old woman) I sent her a text from his phone telling her to back off. I didn’t curse or even tell her all of the things he told me about her (I regret the last part). Not my finest moment but I felt it had to be done because he wouldn’t shut the hell up about her and wouldn’t lessen the contact despite my feelings. This woman also happens to be a member of an HOA and he happens to work in her neighborhood. Well, if you threaten an Ns…ANYTHING, they’re coming for you.

    And came for me he did. In his own nasty text (which I’m sure his psychotic daughter….another story….or some other woman typed out since he can barely make calls let alone send a 2 page text) I was told I had no permission to use his phone to insert myself in his business and personal matters and I was told to never (NEVER!) call, text, or come by again. If I did the big, bad policemen were coming, as well as a lawyer and he would also contact my family.

    Discarded. Discarded as if I were a stranger he’d only met once and not a woman he was in a relationship with. And why? Because I didn’t do as I was told (his favorite line), because I’m sure this other woman thought he was single (and he was trying to get her old Mercedes from her), because he believed I was affecting his business which would affect his clients which would affect his N supply (they all think he’s just the best, snort) and reputation.

    So despite being told how beautiful, funny, loving I was (“you love me like my ex did…no other woman will love me like you do…your love is pure and I feel it”), no matter how good the sex was (according to him), no matter how much I put up with him and his addictions, I was tossed. The night I was tossed I’d cleaned shit out of his toilet only 14 hours prior. With a paper towel.

    Nothing could keep him happy and nothing could stop me from being dropped. Just the slightest hint of anyone exposing them or causing problems (that they create!) will result in you being tossed on your butt.

    Haven’t heard from him in nearly a week and unlike most, I don’t expect I ever will. He does work in my neighborhood but I have successfully avoided him thus far. I will never contact him and I don’t think I would even respond if he reached out to me (thankfully I can be just as stubborn). I’ve cried until my body shook and burned.

    Looking back I can see he triangulated me with everyone, even my own kid. He couldn’t just accept my love and have a normal relationship. He had to make me jealous, stir up drama. There’s so much more (isn’t there always?) but I’ve already typed out a novel.

    • Zari Ballard

      September 14, 2015 at 8:51 pm Reply

      Hi Melissa,

      Wow…please, if you can, download my book from Amazon – When Love Is a Lie. It’s a cheap and easy read and I tell the EXACT SAME STORY of triangulation. One time, after he’d done the usual vanishing act right before Christmas, I sent an anonymous message via Facebook to the girl I suspected he was seeing. I created a fake FB page and everything to do it (like you, it wasn’t one of my finer moments). Mind you, I had no idea where he was even living at the time since he had skipped out on his apartment right after going silent. Well, my suspicions were dead on because the revenge came fast and furious in the form of a COP SERVING A RESTRAINING ORDER AT 8:00PM CHRISTMAS EVE NIGHT. I told the cop, “Never mind that this is over a FB message, you’re serving me a restraining order when I don’t even know where he lives!” I shut the door and crumbled to the floor in a ball. I could barely get out of bed Xmas Day and my poor son was just a little boy. It was horrible. And about a week later – after New Years of course – in walks the narcissist as if nothing happened, breaking his own restraining order. And I took him back. Every year for 13-years, he’d leave right before the holidays and show up sometime after New Years…but that Xmas was the worst of all of them. Bastards!!

      And one more thing….at the very end, I kept finding this number in his phone and he’d brush it off as a person at work. Well, I discovered that he was talking to this “person” at very odd hours so I paid online to have the number looked up and lo and behold it was a 65-year old woman!! So you are not alone, sister. These guys are FREAKS!!!

      Thanks for sharing and if you can, read the book because I guarantee you’ll think that you wrote it. Stay strong and I’m here to support you!

      Zari xo

      • Shoshannah

        November 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm Reply

        Zari, I remember the restraining order Christmas story from your book. This is the most devastating, heart-breaking story I have ever heard. I mean, even killing you literally (e.g. throwing you under a buss) would be less painful. I think I would be crying, unable to breath for weeks after that. I am really sorry that you went through this (but – again, grateful that you saved my life – thanks to you, I run away, and I am sticking to NC before we even got committed). Your books should be much more expensive, they are worth so much! Cheers!.

        • Zari Ballard

          November 7, 2015 at 4:40 pm Reply

          Hi Shoshannah,

          You’re so sweet…thank you for the lovely words! I appreciate you, girl:) Yes, I remember that night well and how he planned it out, specifically paying extra to have it delivered right before. When the Sheriff finally showed, I remember staring at the papers in his hands and saying something like “But I don’t even know where he lives….”. I could barely get the words out, had to push them out like a whisper. And he just shrugged and walked back down the stairs. So sad, I agree. Then two or three weeks later, I think the narc showed back up as if it never happened…but it sure bought him uninterrupted playtime through New Years.

          You know, it’s all worth it to me when I get letters like yours saying that my mistakes have taught you to RUN. Seriously, it changes everything because it gives it a purpose. We CAN turn lemons to lemonade…it’s all within our power if we will only recognize it.

          Cheers to you, sister! And thank you…..

          Zari xo

    • Christine

      September 15, 2015 at 11:03 am Reply

      I had to chime in with this whole older woman thing, because I have experiences with that too. My narcissist was in his late 20s when he started dating me (I’m in my 30s). So I’m older than him–but apparently wasn’t old enough. He went on and on about the hot older women he dated before (who were older than me). He said how it was great to have sex with them as much as he wants, without needing to use birth control since they were past child-bearing age. It’s as if he thought of me as some massive failure for still needing it (heck, that’s just biology and the laws of nature!) As you can see, his reasons for being with older women had nothing to do with them, per se, and revolved around him–in making it more convenient for him in not needing the birth control and not worrying about the possibility of getting anyone pregnant. He also thought older women would be more desperate and eager to have sex with a younger guy, so they were easier “lays” (heck that’s probably why he started with me–but he must have gotten a shock when I left him and it turned out I wasn’t so desperate for him after all LOL!) Like with anyone else, these narcissists pick older women to get something they have–not really because they truly appreciate them for who they are, like normal healthy partners. Of course, not to say that some younger men can’t genuinely love older women. But narcissistic ones certainly can’t, just as they can’t genuinely love anyone.

      If anything, I am really not jealous of any older woman the narcissist takes up with now. I can only pity her, because she probably doesn’t deserve what’s coming any more than I did.

      Big hugs to you Melissa, I know it hurts like crazy right now but you will get through it! Just remember that anything and everything he did was just “smoke and mirrors” as Zari has said on here–no reflection of you at all, only his sickness.

      • Boppy

        October 26, 2015 at 10:21 pm Reply

        I’d like to add something here too about the older women thing. The lunatic spends part of every week at an organisation, won’t say which, why I want to protect the idiots identity I don’t know, that is largely run and maintained by wealthy wome in their 70s and beyond. He’s not a flash looking person at all, they take him out to lunch and for some bizarre reason think he’s wonderful. One of them was in hospital and he took her some FLOWERS PICKED FROM A GRAVEYARD, potted in cemetery soil.
        Hello, symbolism? He’s really out of this world.

        • Shoshannah

          November 5, 2015 at 7:34 pm Reply

          If I can add something about ‘older woman’. I am not old, I am 30. He is 32. The girl that he cheated on me with was 20. Now I know he was never serious about her. He used her for triangulation, he wanted to lure me in a long term relationship (long story, but I’m pretty sure about that), and she was a pawn in the game that he was playing with me. Yet, I would hear all the time about how old I am compared to her (how sick is that? I mean, how rude? why would I let this – not even really good looking – man tell me that I am old compared to his new lover?) Although I saw through his game, I know that he was just trying to make me jealous – it left me devastated. Feeling like not only a doormat, but also an old doormat. We should never let anyone make us feel that way. I am an inteligent, ambitious, strong and very attractive woman. A guy that I’d dated before used to say that he won a lottery with a girl like me. And with the narc I felt like a worthless, useless, OLD doormat. Such feelings just for some good sex? Such a devastation because of some jerk? Never, never again. They are so not worth us! In fact, I really believe I am much more attractive than he is (sorry if that sounds arrogant, but seriously – he is fat and bald, I have no clue now why I could ever be inetrested) and he will never find such a good ‘supply’ as the one that I could provide. Never, I am positive. The douchbag can regret for ever that he lost a supplt that would make his male collegues jealous (and I am sure this is one of the most important things in the world for him).

    • Christine

      September 16, 2015 at 11:33 am Reply

      I have to chime in about this whole older woman thing, because I feel like I could share some insight here. The narcissist I was dating was in his late 20s, and I’m in my 30s. I was obviously older than him, but apparently still not old enough! He always went on and on about these hot older women who he had dated before (older than me). I finally figured out why later on. He said it was great that he could have sex with them as much as he wanted, without needing birth control or worrying about them getting pregnant. His reason for choosing these older women wasn’t about them, per se, but revolved all around him and his needs–in making it more convenient for him to have sex with them. He almost acted like it was a personal failing on my part for still needing birth control (when it’s really just the laws of nature and biology! Well, I’m just thankful it worked…blech, I did not need to repopulate this planet with his ilk and let his narcissism spread like a virus!) He also (rightly or wrongly–no offense to older women) perceived older women as somehow being easier to “lay” than younger ones. I am 90-100% positive that whoever he ditched me for during his final disappearing act was a woman older than me, to get birth control-free sex again. However, I can honestly say now that I am not jealous of her whatsoever and only pity her, knowing that she probably didn’t deserve what she got any more than I did.

      So as with everyone else, the narcissist doesn’t pick partners for the “normal” reasons that healthy people do–because they care about them, feel an emotional connection with them, etc. It’s more that these people somehow have something else that they want to take from them. Think of narcissists more like a leech feeding off a host. For this reason, narcissists inevitably discard their victims one way or the other. Once they have bled their hosts dry, there is nothing left to take, so they have to move on to other hosts to take from them. So Melissa, I know there is nothing that I could really say that can take the pain away (wish I could) but just know that it is all about his sickness and is not a reflection on you whatsoever. You can present a narcissistic man with a woman who has a Victoria’s Secret model body, the genius of Marie Curie and the wealth of Oprah, and he would STILL inevitably discard her.

      Stay strong everyone and keep educating yourself until you know, deep down to your bones, that these leeches have nothing to do with you and how awesome you are!

  • JMG

    September 9, 2015 at 12:37 pm Reply

    I have been No Contact for some time now. And I have been educating myself for the last year on just who I was in a relationship with. I just found your website and I have to say, it is one of the best ones out there for Narc/Psychopath recovery. I am still learning so much and have had quite a few lightbulb moments and much validation today after reading some of your entries. This one on triangulation really struck a cord with me. So many other sites name triangulation as something that happens with another person, usually the OW, never do they name a “cell phone” an inanimate object or a place as being used for triangulation. Granted, it happened a few times but usually with OW. And it was always in passing, almost covert and most of the time I wouldn’t even notice he was doing it because I WAS secure in myself. But now I am really seeing how many things he tried triangulating me with, (sometimes succeeding) his phone, his job, of course other women, his daughters, his vehicle, places he wanted to visit, when we were apart he would say he was out and going to a concert, but do it in such a way that I would freak out. I would occasionally think to myself, “what in the world??” “why am I feeling this way?” when he would mention things, and like you said, he kept on doing it until i “got it.” Then when I would blow up or mention something was “off”, I was called crazy, jealous and needy and that I liked starting drama. Never in my life had I been called “crazy” or a “Drama Queen” or “jealous” or even “needy”. But after I met this parasite, I had those names hurled at me more than I can count. I believed him because something I couldn’t explain in words was happening, and I DID feel jealous and needy, so I must have been! He was so covert in his abuse that sometimes after something was said, I would be thinking about it later, and then realize what he was implying. That was something he was always great at, passive aggressive IMPLYING. Never coming right out and saying things but leaving me to fill in the blanks. And then he would start in with the gaslighting if I ever said anything to him about what he “implied” See why I felt like I really WAS crazy??
    This is just a drop in the bucket as to everything he did to me in a years time. All the pathological lying, cheating, too much to even get into….
    Anyway, it was a year ago this week when I finally had enough and discarded him before he had a chance to do it to me. It felt very empowering to be the one to leave, believe me, it was very hard because I was in love with him and I felt cruel at times. Of course I got to see a side of him that I hadn’t before, the Narc rage was in full effect when he realized I was through, text after text, threats, him trying to get between me and my kids with him telling them lies. To go from raging one minute, to being sugary sweet the next. It really showed just how crazy he was. He was incessant, he hacked into my accounts, texts all hours of the day and night, emails etc. It got too much to handle for me. I was having such bad anxiety and depression because of this maniac. I finally contacted my lawyer to see if I had any options. I filed a Stalking Injunction against him. If he even attempts to contact me, whether it be himself or through a 2nd or 3, 4, 5th party, he will go to jail. He tried to get it overturned and asked for a hearing but luckily I had saved every email, text, phone record that I could and presented it to the court that day. They laughed him out of the courtroom. He was raging when the judge handed down his decision to keep the injunction in place. I MADE him leave me alone. I MADE him not be able to hoover me over and over. I MADE him respect my boundaries. I can honestly say, filing that injunction against my Narc, definitely saved my life. He would have stopped at nothing to ruin my life and would continually be harassing me. TO. THIS. DAY. It scares me to death to think about what my life would be like if I hadn’t taken a legal stand against him. It was the best thing I ever did for myself, aside from getting away from him in the first place….

    • Zari Ballard

      September 16, 2015 at 4:32 pm Reply

      JMG, you have much to be proud of and I hope you know that! You went the extra mile…took those extra steps to ensure that he couldn’t interfere in your life and mess with your head anymore! I can only imagine how sad and terribly difficult and scary it was for you but you did it and I am proud as hell because you are one of us….

      Because I can’t be there in person, I am sending you the biggest hug across the miles! I wish you nothing but the best and thank you for sharing your story. I hope to see you often here:)

      Zari xo

  • Catherine

    September 8, 2015 at 5:10 am Reply

    Hi Zari,
    I thought I would check in.
    How have you been? I hope all is well with you?
    I am still with my partner and very happy, we have just returned from a lovely holiday in the Canary Islands with my daughter.
    Well, as for my friend…. things have gone from bad to worse.
    Despite saying she was over the N, 2 months ago I got a call from her friend… she was on the floor outside a pub in bits…. about the be arrested… she had seen him for the first time since the breakup and he was with his ex.
    She was inconsolable.
    I took her back to mine and my daughter had to watch this crazed woman kicking off (not good)
    Well, we got over that, and she continued to turn up in pubs where she knew he would be and either insult him or just stare (to make him feel uncomfortable)… which you and I both know he could not care less.
    I told her to stay away, but she just could not.
    Well anyway (yes, it gets worse)
    She had a one night stand with a DJ at another pub, because he did not want to see her again she went nuts….but to another level….
    Started sending him hundreds of text messages, saying he was going to PAY (the poor man did not do anything that bad really)
    Then she finds his website…. where he has up and coming gigs and she turns up and sits there staring at him… she is telling me this laughing (like a loon) saying that he won’t be messing with her etc…
    Next thing, she has turned up at his parents house (who are elderly and ill)… on the floor outside screaming…. police called and everything…
    To top it all off, he is also a snooker coach and she booked a lesson under a fake name to turn up and shock him!
    Honestly Zari, it is so bad.
    She has been back to his house, sitting on the wall waiting for him, saying he will PAY for having a one night stand and not getting back to her….. she told him before about the N and that is why she is soooooo angry… but realistically, he probably was not taking it and did not care.
    Now, she recons she is over the ex, and her anger and psycho behaviour had been directed at this poor DJ!
    He is in a terrible state about what she is doing!
    I don’t know what you think, but I believe that her break up with the N has fucked her up so much, she has gone nuts with this normal man….
    But she won’t have it… says she is over the N and angry with the DJ
    What do you think?
    I feel at this point I have to dissociate from her… I don’t want to… but I cannot get dragged into this madness…
    She is not listening and is on self destruct…
    She is slowly getting barred from everywhere in our area!
    And this is playing right into the N’s hands… as everyone now is thinking she is the mad woman….and he is sitting there calmly watching the show.
    All her friends are giving up on her.
    I just don’t know what to do.
    Love as always
    Cat

    • Zari Ballard

      September 17, 2015 at 12:26 pm Reply

      Hi Cat!

      I’m doing great…When you’re post came in, I had just been thinking about you and was going to check in! Listen, this friend of yours….of course, I don’t know her so this is just my observation but my thought is that she has emotional issues that have nothing to do with the narcissist boyfriend. Usually, when the narcissist dumps us and we’re over the top inconsolable, if we have an affair (meaning one night stand) to try to make us feel better, we either 1) end up missing the narcissist even more, or 2) treat the one-nighter guy with the same callousness as the narcissist treated us (meaning blow HIM off). If we’re really, really, really lucky we find someone wonderful like you did and move on but that is so, so rare. You are truly the exception to the “don’t-date-right-after-the-narcissist-because-it-never-works” Rule! LOL So, having said that, this poor girl is really off her rocker and I believe that she will bring you nothing but friendship heartache if you continue to try to help.

      You know, honestly, it’s hard to tell what really goes on in a relationship but it’s very possible that she had much to do with the chaos that occurred with the narcissist guy. Maybe he wasn’t even a narcissist…he could have been just a guy who happened to be an asshole who happened to go out with a nutcase girl and it simply didn’t work out. Given her behavior with the poor DJ, oh my Lord, I bet he’ll think twice before having a one-nighter with anyone ever again! I suppose that it’s possible that the first guy was a narcissist and then she went off the deep end and had the affair and then turned her heartache to anger against the second guy but, for some reason, that doesn’t sit with me. I mean, do you know her from before and remember her as being perfectly normal? If she says she is over the narcissist, I’d have to believe her. Remember that famous movie Fatal Attraction with actor Michael Douglas and actress Glenn Close? OMG – this movie instantly came to mind as I read your letter. Seriously, you have such a happy life…don’t bring this girl into any part of it until she somehow comes out of this weirdness. I don’t see this happening, though. If she is not hearing anything you’re saying, this very well could be just who she really is and the narcissist got more a run for his money than we know. Right now, I’m more worried about you – as the caring friend of a crazy person – and about what’s going to happen to this poor DJ!!!

      Send me your thoughts on this observation, girl…..

      Much love,
      Zari xo

      • Catherine

        September 18, 2015 at 1:56 am Reply

        Dear Zari,
        Thank you for your reply.
        I totally agree with everything you said…. It is very funny actually because last week she turned on me.
        I came home after consoling her and I then received a load of nasty text messages accusing me of telling everyone about what she had been doing!
        My friends were astounded because they were all well aware that she was the one telling people everything, loving the drama and the attention etc…
        I would just be part of the group conversation.
        The sad thing is that now some of the things I confided in her about she is now going around telling people those things…
        To say I feel betrayed is an understatement.
        My friends never liked her and definitely do not now.
        They say she is poison and sick and that they cannot believe how she laughs when she tells the stories of how she is making the DJ “pay”
        If she walks in the pub, the table clear….believe me!
        At least my friends support me.
        And as for her relationship with the N, they were always fighting when she was drunk, she was always falling over and breaking bones and then telling people “he” did it to her.
        I am now ignoring her…. But sadly she will most probably start telling everyone my personal business which would really hurt my boyfriend who does not know I confided in her.
        I only told her things to tell her that we all have problems etc… and now look what has happened.
        I am gutted.
        Big lesson learnt.
        Love Cat

        • Zari Ballard

          September 18, 2015 at 1:01 pm Reply

          Hi Cat,

          Wow…what a bummer. Yes, she is a crazy person and no one that you – of all people – need to be associating with. Here you tried to be a friend to her when likely no one else would and she goes and does that. The thing about a girl like that is that she will attach and then “turn on” everyone. It doesn’t have to be just a “boyfriend” who happens to do something she doesn’t like, it could be a girlfriend as well. She’s got a real evil streak and it’s best to stay away. Even if you do hear through the grapevine that she’s talking about what you told her in confidence, unless it gets way out of control, I wouldn’t even confront her about it. Your friends – and your boyfriend – all know who you are and what you’re about and her talking shit about you will only serve to make her look even worse. Let her dig her own hole which she is obviously already doing. What a idiot she is., seriously.

          So sorry that happened…you’re an awesome friend and it’s her loss. Aside from that, I hope all is well. How lovely it must be to travel around to such beautiful places. Carry on with your wonderful life and refuse to allow in the negativity of certain people. The older I get, the more I realize that I just don’t have the patience for mean people…for bullies…and they can be male or female. I simply let them fall away on their own and they always do. Life is too short and people like that will only drag us down with them – that’s the whole point of the behavior. After all, as we both know, misery DOES love company! Life’s sure full of them lessons, isn’t it??? LOL

          Love you bunches, sister! Sending a big hug across the miles….:)

          Zari xo

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